#222 From burglar to Buddha, the personas we identify with, and the precious gift of life to be revered, with Simon Paul Sutton.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

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Please note, while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.

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Agi Keramidas  0:06  
You are listening to personal development mastery podcast where you will find both the inspiration to grow and the actions to implement towards your next level. I am your host Aggie Keramidas. And my mission is to inspire you to stand out and live your best life. I interview thought leaders, authors, entrepreneurs, spiritual teachers, exceptional people who will inspire you to improve your life and offer through the wisdom actions you can take and implement. Tune in for two new episodes each week and make sure you follow the podcast to get the episodes as soon as they are released.

I am delighted to share the conversation ahead with Simon Paul Sutton. Simon has recently released his autobiography book called Burglar To Buddha Transforming From The Inside Out. And when I asked Simon to send me a short bio of his show I can use when I introduce him, he asked me instead to introduce him the way that I perceive him. This is an interesting and also challenging concept. So here are some words that come to my mind when I think of Simon Paul, satin exuberant, overflowing energy, divine being passionate, transparent, sovereignty and guy on it. And I will add to that the description from Simon's book so you can understand what to expect from this conversation. So the book is called burglar to Buddha, from an unconscious life of crime and drugs driven by fear, to a conscious life of awareness, living high on love and truth in service to that which is greater than you from crime to the divine. I hope you find the conversation as inspiring as I did. Simon, welcome to Personal Development mastery. It's I'm grateful. And it's a real joy to speak with you today.

Simon Paul Sutton  2:45  
Thank you again, welcome. Yeah, I'm very happy to be here. I know, we've been planning it for a while. And it feels like this is the divine moment. Of course.

Agi Keramidas  2:56  
It happens when it's meant to happen. Yeah. So for those for the listener, I will say that we've been planning this for a while and there were hiccups along the way. But here we are, and it is perfect Simon. What I will attempt to do during this conversation is with your book, The from burglar to Buddha. That is your autobiography that describes your journey of personal transformation. I would like to use the book and go through some periods of your life and you know, share the story with the learnings or some great insights because there are many that I made notes of and

see where that leads us to.

That's That's my my intention or my my plan. And like I will also add one thing that is, you know, the subtitle of the book, which is I will read it actually from burglar to Buddha, from an unconscious life of crime and drugs driven by fear to a conscious life of awareness, living high on love and truth in service to that which is greater than you from crime to the divine. So that's I think that description really gives a very nice idea to the listener of what might fall in the conversation. So welcome again, Simon.

Simon Paul Sutton  4:44  
Thank you so much.

Agi Keramidas  4:48  
So we'll start

at the your early ages and take it shall we begin from there, or maybe we can begin very briefly by sharing how we know each other because we have met and connected through a guy and so maybe if you want to share a few things about that before we go back to your third turbulent teenage years of burglary and shoplifting.

Simon Paul Sutton  5:20  
Yeah, yeah. Why not? I mean, yeah, you and I met through a beautiful community, pioneering visionaries, and then platform called Gaia net, and Gaia net, for us is a, an opportunity to come together with the intention of living more in harmony with life, and living a regenerative lifestyle and actually birthing the seeds of, of what it means to be in a supportive network of community, a space where we can share our gifts and resources, and cultivate the foundations of a new civilization. And this is happening not just through Gaia net, but this is happening across the whole board, in my opinion, or the way I view reality, it's happening where for, for humanity to evolve for humans to evolve anyway, as a species, that it's really a time for us to come back to community and real community, not just the idea of community, but the the real intimacy of community. And, and you and I met there for a number of little online events. And then I reached out to you for some guidance and support because you also have many gifts to share. And you were there. And that's how we work in the community. We're there for each other if we needed each other. And then from there, you told me you had a podcast, and I was super inspired. And then I had a book launch Elon, you're like, wow, would you like to come on the podcast? Of course.

Agi Keramidas  7:00  
Yeah, it happened very,

Unknown Speaker  7:01  
it happened very

Agi Keramidas  7:03  
effortlessly. And I read your book. And I don't say that very often. But I read all of the book cover to cover with great interest. And that doesn't happen to you know, most of the books that I read, so I really enjoyed it. And

Unknown Speaker  7:23  
yeah, I will try to get some

Agi Keramidas  7:25  
elements of that book and show that we can all be inspired by your your own transformation from burglar to Buddha, as you say, so, I I will do then Simon, I will go back then in time and there was a time when you were a teenager in England. You were at some point into crime you were a burglar. And there is one phrase that I picked from the book that made a big impression on me. So you can comment on that or anything else from that period you feel wanting to, to share. But you were saying about burglary that it was nerve racking. And I will quote hear what you say that being tastes literally feels like a life or death situation. And pure survival instincts are triggered, and your whole body goes into a different state of being and you got you know, you enjoy that sensation. So I'm starting with this because it's probably the very beginning from the your early days, the the burglar or the crime days of your past. Yeah, beautiful.

Simon Paul Sutton  8:52  
Yeah, so. So it's interesting that I never realised this until later when I had a greater understanding of the body and a greater understanding of the chemicals that are moving around our body. And although I had some understanding of addiction, on some level, you know, like I grew up in an environment where I was taking drugs and others that were taking drugs. So therefore, we understood what an addict or our projection of an addict look like, you know, like a heroin addict or a cocaine addict or somebody. But it wasn't until later in life and my own deeper inquiry into the self that I realised that I was actually addicted to adrenaline and adrenaline and the release that the body receives chemically when you're in a fight or flight or freeze scenario. So what you're what I was referencing there in the book was the the the Because of the fear of committing a crime, and then getting away with the crime, if you actually get away with it, then the heightened experience of going into that fear and this is really when you think about even those that do a lot of extreme sports and those that really go to the edge of their I mean, you could call it a hobby I guess but you know, they go to the edge. A lot of the times it's fear that the very essence of fear or again the adrenaline the the chemical release of face now fears is is very intoxicating. Yeah,

Agi Keramidas  10:52  
I what you said about the extreme sports, so, yeah, I've done skydiving and bungee jumping in it. Is that that that feeling? That adrenaline feeling you have is exhilarating.

Simon Paul Sutton  11:05  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, one thing to add to that is, what happens is actually, this is the irony, I guess, on some level, you get to taste death. And death being a huge topic that I I explore and I question and so on, is that actually, there's this sense of, like the word you said, exhilaration, in the potential of dying, even though there's some, we know we're not going to fully die, but go into that edge can also be very exhilarating. And simultaneously, when you when you dive deeper into the psyche, you realise that many of us I speak for myself, always. But many people I meet over the years are actually the deepest fear is the fear of death. And many of us are pondering that on a regular basis, but we're not fully admitting it. But day to day, there's a subtle undercurrent of a fear of dying. And so on some level that feeds into our emotional experience, it feeds into our chemical experience of being human.

Agi Keramidas  12:20  
I hadn't thought of it, like, how you say that you get to taste death. But it makes complete sense now that you say to me in, in a way. And I also wanted to add one thing, because we started and maybe I know, that's the chronological way of things, but maybe it's it sounded a little bit unfair to begin our conversation with, you know, referring back to your, those years. So I will add to that, that I find that you're sharing your story in such an honest and vulnerable way, and some elements of your story that not everyone would, you know, share them publicly. And you told me earlier on before we started recording that this also allowed you to release and take that story out of you. So that for me also was a big Realisation to realise that when you share something, it's not inside your mind anymore. And you can let go of that in a in a different way. Show you gave me some ideas about myself as well. Simon, thank you.

Simon Paul Sutton  13:45  
Yeah, you know, so somebody, somebody said, we simply to me that what happens is that, like, we live in myth, yeah. So, myth, myth, mythological reality, like everything is story on some level, and at the same time, we're not our story, because you can never really know every somebody's full story. So the journey that I have shared is a is a is a fragment. And at the same time, you know, a, as you said, a kind of chronological journey up to a certain point of my own personal awakening. And, you know, one of the things I wanted to exercise or I believe that the world would benefit from, is transparency. So transparency became a big topic in my life. And, and, of course, when you're dealing with when you're talking about certain things that you've done in life that are in a society perspective, wrong, or bad, or, you know, you don't you don't talk about those things, especially around on crime, criminal activities, and taking drugs and you know, most people would won't talk about that those experiences because in our society it's deemed as, as wrong. You know, you're not, you shouldn't you shouldn't be doing that. Or if you do, do it, you do it under, under cover No. And so, so the kind of the journey that I went on was that if we want to see a world of truth, if we want to see a world of sincerity, then we have to be sincere of ourselves and speak our truth. And it's a really, it's not an easy thing to do when you've, you've grown up in a foundation of our default setting is lying. So, yeah, it's so it's a very, it was, it was a very, yeah, as you said, vulnerable, and still is, you know, it's like you put something like this out into the world. And although I've relinquished that story now, because my friend said, like, when we miss a myth, mythologize our story, yeah, when we mythologize it, he said, it was like a ceremony of self recognition. And, and I told you this earlier, but just for for the listeners, this was really interesting for me, because what happened is, I realised that through the process of writing the story, over a long period of time in different variations, what I was actually doing, was acknowledging myself and recognising my myself. And through that process, I was able to relinquish my attachments to the identification of the persona that I had, that I had been, or the many different personas that I'd been throughout the past. So I was able to free myself from those characters.

Agi Keramidas  16:53  
Was there a point Simon Welsh, I remember reading your books that you had, naturally, I think everyone, most people would have guilt and shame about the that behaviour? Was there a point where you managed to go past that in order to be able to share that with, you know, a broad audience?

Simon Paul Sutton  17:15  
Yes. 100%. Yeah, I can share a little. I don't know if I wrote this in the book, if this made it into the book, but that there was a moment, I think I mentioned it. So there was a moment where I had already written a lot of the story down and a lot of my past very, very vividly, and a kind of in a cathartic expression of just like stream of consciousness. And I had a if I remember rightly, 100 pages of, you know, on the on the Word document, around 100 pages that had just come out with different stories that I'd experienced, and, and so on. And I actually took it to a friend to read it for the first time. And he was a he was a director, or film director. And because I went on this quest to become a famous actor and a performer, I, at the time, I thought, Oh, why don't I read this story to my friends salve? And let him feel into it. So I went to his and read him pretty much what I had written. And that was a moment of real, like, oh, all of a sudden, I'm going to tell somebody for the first time, these experiences that I had had. So that was a huge moment of facing the guilt and the shame. Because for me, for me, Aggie that guilt means I did something wrong and shame means I am wrong. Yeah, this is, uh, this is how Brene Brown disk describes it's like, shame is like, I am wrong, you know, and guilt is I, I, I've done something wrong. So, yeah, there's no question about it, that really the depths of shame and guilt that I was holding on to was quite dense because in our society, crime in its essence, is one of the main things that is seen as wrong, you are wrong, you've done something wrong. When you when you steal, you know, we're told from such a young age when you take what's not yours, you know, you are you are wrong, you know, so, so actually, my whole a big chunk of my youth even up through my 20s as well because I was you know, taking drugs and and really very much doing what is wrong, you know, so yeah, there's a there's a lot that you have to feel and face when you when you look at that Yeah,

Agi Keramidas  20:02  
thank you, I will carry on what you started saying this now than about being wrong and the drugs and alcohol things that you also said earlier on that many people do that, but they do it covertly. They don't necessarily speak out about this thing, you will rarely hear that outside. There was and again, I'm going to refer back to a point in your, in your book that you were talking about that period of drinking and having drugs. So you said that at some point, you realise that they were part of a persona that you had that was not ready to die yet. So you wanted, you know, to get steer clear of them. I think this conversation or this topic might be relevant for many people that, you know, they realise that don't really like I don't want to keep on doing this. But they keep on doing this. So you described it in such a way that it was a part of your persona not ready to die yet. So I really like that US asset description, it also implies that it's not ready to die yet. There is something holding it and maybe something needs to change on a deeper

Simon Paul Sutton  21:28  
level. Yeah, totally. Yeah, that the journey of the persona, the persona, the personas that we create, they become who we are. So yeah. So what was not really ready to die was that I had identified myself as that being. So there's a sense of confirmation and justification, and upholding the belief of this character. And, and, again, when we reference this journey that I've been on, like, I never had that awareness at all. Back then, that I was a character, that I was a persona that I was, you know, that's like, as you're growing up was, for me that you think that's who you are. So your whole life is created around that the beings that you meet the friends, you have your day to day routines, everything's built up around this character. So so when that when that persona has to be let go of, again, I'm going to use the word death because you go through a huge death. And you have to die to your behaviours, your actions, your friendships, your environment, your habits, your addictions, like so it's like, actually, it's a whole, it's a whole cleanse, of everything that you thought was was your reality. So that, you know, and this this is, that hasn't happened just once or twice. This has happened multiple times, and still happens now. But But back then, you know, there was not like, there was so much fear and worry of, of like, what is the unknown? Who am I? Who am I? If I'm not this person? Yeah. Okay. And then, and then what's beautiful is, as you evolve, and you realise that you're not a person, you know, this is the greater awareness of course, then you know, then you're not so identified to the well, basically, you don't take yourself so seriously anymore, because you realise that's not who you are.

Yeah, but of course, that doesn't this journey. Yeah,

Agi Keramidas  24:10  
it's actually not what you say now about the persona and the realisation that we you were playing a role or we're playing a role or different roles. brings me to the next bit, which is the acting, which you did actually play roles professionally, you during your acting career. And there was one thing, again, that I've highlighted from the book, you said that acting taught you about, it taught you a lot about the human psyche, and you would observe other people and your own behaviour and I'm wondering now based on what you just said earlier about realising that you are a characters or you have some characters rage that die. So I'm wondering how much your acting or being an actor actually helped in seeing that fool yourself that it is a road.

Simon Paul Sutton  25:12  
Yeah, yeah, it's a beautiful leading, thank you for that. And yeah, there was this moment for me where I kind of later on, when I started meditating, this came some some years later, and I was reflecting on, I used to really, at times judge the experiences I had around drugs judged the crime that I did, I used to judge even being an actor, you know, I went into this kind of process of like, ah, acting was just about the ego, and it was just about me wanting to be seen and wanted to be famous. And I, I kind of went into this whole process and actually felt really, an actually felt really let down. Because, because acting was the, the lifeline that I needed in order to pull me out of the world of crime and addiction and drugs and, and kind of hedonism that I was stuck in. So so the drive to be an actor was actually kind of a lifeline or a hope, a potential of a new world. And it really helped as that anchor was an amazing anchor. But I never gave it I don't think I even mentioned is fully in the book as well, of how much acting helped me to know who to know who I'm not basically, it's like, it helped me to know who I am not. But I felt really let down because I went into the acting world thinking it was something that it wasn't an actually I was just going in to the same kind of persona well, even more persona world, and even more characters that were still just taking drugs and drinking alcohol and, and kind of lost and, and you know, and I glorified it in my, in my dream in my fantasy, I glorified it. And, and so what I had to happen, there was a moment where now this persona of the actor, and this glorification of this reality, also had to crumble. And I was like, Oh, this has been 12 years, 15 years of my life. And actually, it's all a facade, it's all an act. And, and ironically, coming back to your, your beautiful leading was the beautiful thing about witnessing yourself and learning about characters, you start to learn about the thought patterns, or the habits and the little idiosyncrasies that create a character that make up a character. So, you start to look at these behaviours and these personality traits of different characters like what drives them, what fuels them, what, what motivates them, what gives them motive to live. And this was really insightful for me, when I started to reflect on society and, and humanity and how we, through conditioned thinking and through conditioned patterns in our subconscious, we actually manifest reality and replicate reality from within the subconscious. And so, it started to I started to have a kind of deepest, deeper look inside of, you know, if we want to look at the world outside as a theatre as you will as a stage or as Shakespeare said, you know, the world is a stage then then how is that how is those stages being created, and then you look at the kind of how, what acting is and it's about writing a script, and then finding a producer to make the script and then you find the actors and the supporting cast and the lead characters, and then you build a set and then you put these characters in the set, and then you fill in the set and you tell a story. And so then I kind of panned out from that and go wow, that is actually how reality is happening constantly regardless of the so called cinema and theatre that were also playing inside the kind of fractal of you know the stage so I was like wow, this is tripping me out I wasn't taking drugs at this point at all

Agi Keramidas  29:39  
Yeah, I had goosebumps with when you what you just say that but you panning out and realising that this is what happens without reality. And it's a very, very important lesson. Let's let let me move on now. I think we really get in to some different contexts now, and I want to discuss your your awakening journey. Of course, again, there are so many things there is, I have highlighted a couple of things. The first one, I want it, it really made a big impression on me. And it is something that I would love to do at some point, I haven't done it yet, but your book, brought it back into my memory, my, what I want to do is the Vipassana, the 10 day, silent meditation retreat that you did. So I have my own calling to do something to do that. So and so your book was a great reminder for me, what do you want to share? From that experience? You know, what was the the transformation one that has never done something like that? can only imagine if they even can imagine how it might might be to be in complete silence for 10 days and not speak? No, try to not have any of the distractions that you have apart from your own mind? Sure, I would, I would really love you to hear your reflections on that.

Simon Paul Sutton  31:21  
Yes, Vipassana was a stage in the awakening process. And when when we asked like you say, like, this awakening moment, right, that often people ask, like, ah, at what moment, like, what moment? Did you really and I know, you're not asking this, but people do ask along the way, like, what moment was the was the key moment, you know, that you just awoke, and then he was just awake, and then all of a sudden, life was different. And, again, I will say that there weren't there were times in the last decade, where I would also be thinking of like, when were these moments, like, when were these key moments. And I often had them just in these glorified sections now, like, for example, the personnel or meeting Anna, this being the I, like, you know, fell in love with but at the same time, the catalyst that opened me to a greater love, which, you know, she played, there's a kind of a, I call it more of a, an alchemy, a key figure in our journey that opens us up to something that we didn't perceive before. And it's often they sometimes don't even know they're doing that. So these moments, and then there was another moment when I was in jail for a short time. And I spoke about this being in the remand Centre for nine and a half weeks. And there was moments in that time, even when I was 18, that I was awakening, because I was questioning society and I was questioning this prison environment, and actually seeing the prison environment on the outside a bit like what I just told you was happening with the whole acting world and seeing the stage outside. So there was moments even when I was 1819, where this kind of like, questioning reality was taking place. And then when it later on in life, as you know, becoming more aware, you could say is like, awareness is the awakening, and how aware are we and, and, and so Vipassana, really played into a great opportunity to look and to and to witness. And so I had been meditating for some time, but not not much like yoga practice. And at the end of yoga practice sitting for maybe 510 minutes, or, you know, just being becoming more meditative. You could say through certain, I read some books on meditation, so I started to have a curiosity about meditation. But it really wasn't until I did and followed the journey of that first 10 day silent meditation retreat. That was again a key catalyst in actually what is going on inside me. Like this was just a real opportunity to just look like what is going on? What like what am I thinking? What am I feeling? And just can I just silence everything else? I mean, this is the gift that I feel the person that offers, can everything else just be forgotten about and silenced for a while? Of course it's not it's not so silent inside

but these at least the the act of taking things away like writing mobile phone, friends, environment, you know, at least taking those things away. Eat for 10 days allows the opportunity to listen to something else. Yeah. And so that that first initial 10 days was really gave me a great experience of what it means to sit still and observe. And that just again, that played as part of a catalyst of supporting more awareness.

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Thank you. And you refer to these events as catalysts or so it's rather than a moment or some specific point in time. I also think and believe that they do adapt these moments one after the other. They give you a different perspective or a different level of awareness and then you move to another one and into another one. I don't know if I think Eckhart Tolle has a moment you can say that it was that night that he changed. But a lot is a little bit of a very unique situation, I think rather than the

Simon Paul Sutton  37:49  
Yeah. And I read I read the book of Eckhart Tolle and I was inspired by the power of now and other books along the way. But again, I think even that moment, like when you reference when he kind of had the, you know, an epiphany moment, which, you know, I could reference some of those to, like, many can know, like, when I met Anna, and like having this like, you know, time with meeting this partner, which I thought was I just thought I was falling in love, but something else was happening. And it wasn't about the personal love, but something was opening me up to something far greater. And then what I realised when just looking back is, yeah, there's these moments that because we're so interconnected with everything, I mean, yeah, it's like, they're not just these separate moments. They're like, they're like continuations of the orchestra of life that that play in. And then we remember, we just remember some little heightened moments, you know, all the birds were there. And, you know, ultimately, it's like, it's this one, constant, opening no to life. That's what it feels like for me.

Agi Keramidas  39:06  
Yes, it's, the listener can't see you, but you were really using your whole body to express what you just said. So. Yeah, that's beautiful. Simon, I want also to ask you about those conversations that you started having the Simon on the sofa, which was like, interviews or conversations with intriguing people. And again, I want to ask your, maybe how that transformed you. And maybe some of the key learnings that came from you having conversations like like we're having now because I'm going to save my own learnings for some other time but I want to Here's yours. Visually, there are many, but whatever comes to you to share with me?

Simon Paul Sutton  40:08  
Well, you said it earlier actually didn't you said to me, you said to me at the beginning that one of the things this podcast has done for you is giving you a great mirror into aspects of yourself that you were not aware of.

Agi Keramidas  40:21  
Yeah. Yeah, good and bad. Yeah.

Simon Paul Sutton  40:25  
And, and, and I feel that you have a, you have a full understanding of this, because of the, what you're doing here with this podcast, and, and what drove me, I didn't even know at the time. And, you know, we're laughing like I didn't know about marketing and all these things. And I still, I still along the way, got caught up in the, in the, in the system that I was seeing as false, right, so many aspects of society and how it's built. I see as false. I don't, I believe that we're playing a game in our society, which is really a dysfunctional game on so many levels. And so, and I can elaborate on that, if needed, but more importantly, is like when we see the delusion of ourselves, and we see the delusion of how these structures have been built. I wanted to create conversations, and I was just inspired, like, is there anybody speaking truth in the world, like, I had this whole epiphany moment where I was like, I need to stop lying. Because all I'm seeing everywhere is lies. I'm lying, I was a liar. I was telling lies, I wasn't being honest to myself to others, I was fabricating stories I was I was glorifying certain situations, which were not really that glorious. And I was acting in, in the drive of being an actor. And I was like, and when I had this, like epiphany moments, I was like, wow, oh, it will make sense. If we stopped lying, then everything will change if if I stopped laying, and like, if everybody else stops laying, then so much of the society that is built on lies will just not exist. And I was like, Oh, yes, it's really easy. It's easy. We just have to go Stop lying. And I was like, yes, epiphany. I've got the answer. And of course, then you go.

Unknown Speaker  42:23  
Who else?

Simon Paul Sutton  42:24  
Who else? Does anybody? Is anybody else doing this? So Simon on the sofa? Was this kind of quest to scope? Is that is there others out there in the world that are seeing life the way I'm seeing live? I felt a little bit like, Am I just on my own in this kind of trip, you know? So I went on this quest to create conversations around truth. But of course, Agha, you're going to notice, I didn't realise all I'm doing is getting mirror reflections of my own self, that is not speaking truth still is still scared to go into certain areas of topic of conversation, still scared to, you know, really express what I want to say. And holding myself back and, and meeting people. And sometimes, like not fully agreeing with them or believing them but still not having the courage to communicate my truth. And I went through a whole process through those conversations. And actually, they played as part of my ultimate transformation, because they were like, they were like, putting yourself in the Yeah, in the practice of speaking truth, and mirroring yourself mirroring myself through every single conversation I had. So it was kind of part of my own personal therapy.

Does that make sense?

Agi Keramidas  43:57  
It certainly does. And I can relate to that. I mean, the word it's interesting that you use the word therapy when I started my first podcast, with a co host, we were doing it and we were saying this is our therapy, we actually said that because it is you know, you just share things and what you just told me about the conversations and how they allowed you to see things about yourself and you know, be able to express things that you were holding back because of conditioning or other reasons. Now I am going to ask you a similar question that before was there any point when it's tipped over the other side and you were able to share or to discuss sensitive topics or to say to your guests, you know what, I completely disagree with you, but maybe in a more subtle way, but did you go over to that side or CDs all of you having these conversations at some point?

Simon Paul Sutton  45:03  
Yes, yeah, definitely. So, yeah, like you said, in a subtle way, because what I wanted to start to own, and still this is part of this living transparently is that transparent communication doesn't mean you just have to tell everybody what you think about them. And you just have to be like, you know, blatant and say, Well, you know, you're a liar, or you're this is, you know, transparency is not brutality. Actually, transparency for me became an inside job. So what I mean by that it was like, am I, am I being truthful to me? Am I being truthful to what I feel inside of me? And can I just express from that place? And so what I, what I learned through these conversations, was that you and I don't have to agree. And, but everything that's happening for you, or for me, is valid. But it doesn't mean it's all true. So what happened is, I started to get a different a different way of engaging and not feeling like I have to agree with somebody, in order for them, in order for us to have a good conversation. Actually, it's it's sometimes actually not agreeing is can can create a much more rich conversation. And so I overcome my fear of actually being able to say what I'm really thinking and feeling in the moment. And, and then that's, that's changed now. So I can say, for example, when somebody might to give, you know, kind of a more practical example, if somebody starts talking to me about a topic, let's say, angels, or angels communicating to them in, in, in, in their life. And so if I don't feel that I have angels communicating to me, I can communicate from that place that they are, this is beautiful to listen to, and hear and I want to, I'm interested in your perspective on it. But it doesn't resonate fully for me, because I don't actually have communication to angels. Yeah. But it doesn't mean that I don't, I don't agree with you. But I'm actually then there's a curiosity that can come that maybe I can learn something from you, as opposed to just be like, you know, sort of stuck in my own projection of how I perceive reality. And so what happened, each conversation opened me to the infinite potential in this cosmic soup, and that it's all valid on some level, and everybody's having their own direct experience with this mystery. And that really changed the way that I was able to move from my own egos perspective, because, you know, the ego is still there of like, reality is how I see how Simon sees it. And so that slowly that persona died as well. But that persona was really I love that persona. That was the one that all of a sudden had worked out reality. The one that knew the answers to everything. That was part of the awakening process, I guess. It's like you awaken. And then then you have a superior ego, spiritual, superior ego, where you're like, now I'm awakened. And I project that I now know the answers to everything, and I'm the enlightened one. And then you realise, oh, no, damn, I just created another character.

Agi Keramidas  48:25  
But it's a subtle trap. I have read about that many people fall into that spiritual superiority. But I will leave, I will leave that for now. I actually want to ask you, Simon to take us now forward and to the present moment, we spoke quite a little, quite a bit about your book and your past. But tell me what are you doing now? What what is your situation now and your show? Let's start with that. Don't want to ask you two questions at the same time.

Simon Paul Sutton  49:03  
Yeah, this is, this is a beautiful one to ask me today. Because this journey of awareness. So when I when I write in the book burglar to Buddha, it's a big statement, though. It's a big statement to call myself Buddha. Yeah. Because most beings, most beings will be like, you know, who does he think he is calling himself Buddha, right? I haven't studied Buddhism. I haven't meditated on the Himalayas for years on end. I haven't renounced everything. So who am I to call myself Buddha? And so my exploration of Buddha of Buddhahood is really the greater awareness. This is my interpretation of it the greater awareness of our divinity, that we are divine beings, and not that we're divine and beings just when we've read Eckhart Tolle, but we're Divine Beings from the moment of our inception. And so, my very, my dedication is to, to celebrate that divinity within myself and to support others to realise their own divinity. And what I mean by that is that a lot of this can sound conceptual because we use words to describe that which cannot really be named because we're playing in the mystery. And then we're playing in the funky paradox of reality. And it can all get kind of convoluted and conceptual and, and even dogmatic on so many levels. So, we're where I'm at at the moment. Agnew's, it's really about you know, I am whole, I am complete, I am, I am done, life is doing me. And I am here as the mystery as this expression of lifeforce. And I just, we call it love, we call it source, we call it creation, we call it all these different names to, to express what seems to be inexpressible. And so I'm playing with the mystery. And, and that's really, that's my best my devotion is to play with the mystery. And what I've learned from myself, is, the beautiful way to play with the mystery is to support others to realise that they can play with the mystery, and that they can play with themselves. And they can play with themselves without guilt, and without shame. And without that they're less than, and without this deep rooted, which I believe is false. And I don't really like the word I believe, because belief itself is flawed. But like this idea, this idea that we are unworthy. There's a deep rooted belief system in our species called the core unworthiness. This is a term that a term that a friend Ted Steiner, on one of my Simon on the sofa talks spoke about, and he spoke that through religion, their birth, this core unworthiness. And what happened is that when humans take on board this core unworthiness, we see ourselves as constantly flawed, constantly imperfect, and constantly in competition with other because we don't see ourselves as whole, perfect and divine. And so for me, this is a distortion that has created so many conflicts, so much self abuse, so much war. And so I evoke and welcome everyone back into the playful Laughing Buddha, the Laughing Buddha, that laughs at all, and realises that it's all a play. And so, I went from taking life so seriously caught up in the illusion and delusion of reality, went on a quest to be a performer, an actor and play, you know, in the theatre in this like cosmic dance, and then realise that wow, the whole thing is one big play. And if I want to contribute to humanity, you know, what do I want to offer? And the only question that came was sorry, the only answer that came Aggie was be love, amplify love. And so this kind of my devotion

Agi Keramidas  54:00  
This is beautiful Simon, thank you. I can I will reiterate back some of those things. There are some words that you said well, I will start with what you just said Be Love Yourself and amplify love with others and earlier you said and celebrating your divinity and support others to realise their divinity. And and again, it is the way that you express it and that I really appreciate and enjoy the way you describe it because it is you know very well that many times that it's difficult to with words to express you already said the inexpressible it's difficult to express it and I think you have done that in a very It spoke to me the way you said celebrate or my divinity, you're playing with the mysterious you said, What? What a beautiful description that is for life versus the distorted reality that we experience through our mind. Yeah, no, that's, that's beautiful. And I will also make one last comment about that, because you mentioned the Buddha in the title of your book, when I saw that I immediately personally saw it as a symbolism. Like, you're not saying that you are Buddha or you have attained Buddhahood. What if that if such a thing exists, it is a symbol of a metaphor of the, you know, the, the chains, so maybe too, too extreme. So, for me, it didn't sound, it actually sounded more intriguing to read the book rather than, you know, insulting to the name of Buddha or anything like that. That's just my own observation that came to me when you were saying that I hadn't thought of it before.

Simon Paul Sutton  56:07  
Thank you for sharing that. Because that's, you know, that's exactly, that's exactly what it is. It's, it's the, the message for me, and I'm sure you notice from your, your wisdom and your experience of this life is that there's certain messages that come from, you know, beings before us. And one of the greatest messages that I noticed in so many the beings that I've been inspired by those that really have seen, seen and opened their eyes, I see them as very playful. And very, and this is really beautiful. I'm going to say now for for those listening as well. Not childish, because I was childish for a long, long time. But child like, and there's a big difference. So, yes, so right now in the world, I care, I care, but I don't carry. And that means that I care about what's happening in the world I care about where humanity is going, I care about the violence that we see unnecessary, and my take and I i understand is a deep perfection in all of it. But at the same time, I want to offer my contribution to unlike wait you like you and I do and like Gaia net, we come full circle back the guy on it, like guy in it does. We want to offer a playground of potential, where we can live as these awakened, embodied beings, the sovereign beings who are in service to one another, in service to the Divine, in service to reverence of this gift of life, and really seeing it and feeling it as a precious gift of life, not as something to be taken for granted, not as something to be thrown in the bin not as something to be wasted. But something to be revered. And that for me, Aggie if there's any transformation, that I get tingles, my whole body is goosebumps right now look, I've got goosebumps over my whole arms are all my hairs on end. And that tells me that we are tapping in to something purely, I call it pure truth, that we are here to celebrate this magnitude of this gift that we have all been given completely for free, completely for free. And so it's not for sale. But it's definitely here to be experienced.

Agi Keramidas  58:45  
Thank you. Thank you a precious gift of life to be revered that will. Yeah, I will keep that that phrase. I will write it and put it somewhere for when I'm experiencing, you know, the dark. Yes. We have. We have we have reached the point right now I think we talked about this briefly before we started recording that could either go two to three hours. So to wrap things up, so I'm not going to go into a very, very, you know, Marathon conversation show I would, first of all, I will appreciate very much everything that you've said so far. But I do have some last quick questions to wrap things up that I really want to ask you as well to see your take of it. It's questions I asked to all of my guests and the first one is what does the term personal development mean to you?

Simon Paul Sutton  59:52  
We've been talking about personas and on some level dissolving our personas and and being the vast sovereign beings that we are. And so for me, it's about developing, developing ourselves. And and I think when I hear when I say this right now and I think of the word develop, what pops up is this old cameras with the you used to have to shake the new step of shake the image now Polaroid, the Polaroid, thank you. Yes, I used to have to shake it. So as you as as you asked me, I had this vision of the Polaroid. And what we're doing is we're shaking the the Polaroid, in order to see who we truly are. And that, for me, is what personal development is. And what I love about you calling it personal develop mastery, the mastery of that is the consistency to show up and face our shadows, and face all of all of what we've been through in order to see who we truly are. And that for me, that mastery comes from consistency, and repetition. So that's that's the that's what comes up in this moment.

Agi Keramidas  1:01:18  
That you I agree completely. Tell me one, one hypothetical question as well, if you could go back in time and meet the 18 year old Simon, what's one piece of advice you would tell him?

Simon Paul Sutton  1:01:33  
Oh, God, the 18 year old Simon. The thing that's popping up right now is learn learn other languages. learn other languages, so that you can have a deeper understanding of yet interconnection through multiple languages, one of the things that I've often considered when I played around in school, and just wanted to, you know, mess around, and my energy was very uncontrollable, I look back sometimes not with regret, but definitely learning other languages, I feel would would have expanded my potential to understand the human condition. So yeah, and you know, this, but there's, you know, different language, although there's a universal language, which I would call love. When I meet other friends and other beings on this path, that communicate in a different language, they they've taught told me that they create a different, a different being, and they perceive reality in different ways. And so this is one thing that I feel I would have probably told my 18 year old. That's great. Does that resonate? Do you have you have this experience?

Agi Keramidas  1:02:57  
It does? I have they been bilingual. I'm a Greek originally. So if I think of something in Greek, and if I think about it in English, it's not exactly the same thing. So there are nuances there. And it's very, it's very interesting to observe that. So thank you for for saying that. Simon, we set the intention at the beginning of before we started recording, we set the intention for this conversation to give to the listener opportunities for transformation. My the way I look at a conversation I believe that we have emerging from the conversation if you were to give to the listener one more thing, something maybe an action that he or she can take towards, you know, what we have been talking or even their awakening journey or the transformation? What actionable element could you share? Nor would you share?

Simon Paul Sutton  1:04:06  
The one thing popping up as soon as you ask that begin to ask the question is making a decision today, make a decision today to never lie again to yourself. Beautiful, they this decision will change your whole life.

Agi Keramidas  1:04:25  
Thank you. Please share with us as well. How can people connect with you and where they can find more information about this? Wonderful being that Simon Simon is and I'm really delighted to you know, to have had this conversation very much.

Simon Paul Sutton  1:04:48  
I really appreciate you again, and I love that our friendship is growing and through this conversation. So I really want to acknowledge you and for what you're doing and the conversations you're sharing with the world. And I know how much work and time goes into that and commitment. And I know you do it from a place of love, and, and truth. And I really appreciate that. So thank you for inviting me today, thank you for also reading my book, or the whole book, because I also know that that's not something that we all have time to do. So I really appreciate you and your sincerity. And people can people can find me. At the moment, I'm using a telegram channel where I show up and share my unfoldings my my life and we have a live stream a weekly live stream. And I'm really this quest that I'm on to Yeah, just to support more play in the world. And that telegram channel is under the name Simon transparently at Simon transparently. And then the the website that I'm currently designing and putting together is also called Simon transparently.com. And these are the two channels that I'm mainly bringing more focus to over this coming year. So thank you for asking. Yeah, and always, always Aggie I say as well. It's like, you know, the ultimate calling is always inside. And it's not just what you can get from me or from you or from anybody, it's really the calling is always to go inside. So the best place to go first is inside. And then if you want to come and hang out with me, sometimes you can go outside

Agi Keramidas  1:06:36  
I will I will leave that as an epilogue of this wonderful conversation that the best place to go is these inside. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Simon Paul Sutton  1:06:48  
Thank you so much. Thank you to everyone listening.

Agi Keramidas  1:06:50  
I hope you enjoyed listening and that you got a huge amount of value from today's episode. If you have, please share this episode with someone who you think will benefit from it. If you want to know more about what I do, visit my website, AGIKERAMIDAS.COM             And until next time, stand out, don't fit in!